| Comments:
BrianR - 2007-10-03 23:48:44
I've already gone on record as saying I'd like to call it Rose Will Monroe Stadium.
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Ypsidixit - 2007-10-04 00:14:54
I had to look it up...I never knew that was Rosie the Riveter's real name. Great idea: what more fitting icon for this admirable Water Street turnaround plan, which could materially aid in a turnaround of the entire city's financial picture, than someone who rolled up her sleeves and built mighty things when no one expected it?
And unless the image is copyrighted, merch would sell like hotcakes I bet.
Mr. Robb's kind visit to this humble blog reminds Y. that a little bird told me that the new Courier, on newsstands now, is the highly collectible, lucratively ebayable Brian Robb Edition. It features stories about Mr. Robb vis-a-vis the income tax, the baseball stadium, the lawsuit against the city, and there's a photograph, too. Land sakes. It makes one wonder why they overlooked Mr. Robb's fall fashion tips and favorite recipes, but I won't quibble. Get a copy while you can!
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pat the handyman - 2007-10-04 09:27:16
they will have to tear down a lot more housing to put in parking ...and stuff to support this ...Hmm I am thinking out loud again !
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Ypsidixit - 2007-10-04 09:47:44
Hmm...Pat, I dunno. That Water Street site is pretty huge, (to use a technical term). 49 acres if I remember correctly. It stretches quite a ways east as you know, all the way up to Park Street. Just eyeballing it, it kinda looks as though it could easily support a stadium with plenty of parking (let's please put a permeable parking lot, like pea gravel, in, so close to the river!)
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unfiltered - 2007-10-04 13:34:46
Hey, we made the big time. A mention of this project was made @ ballparkwatch.com. No link to the article though.
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Ypsidixit - 2007-10-04 13:41:14
Hey, yeah! Cool! Looks as though they just clipped part of the Courier article.
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unfiltered - 2007-10-04 13:52:47
I hope the people on the committee are aware of this site. It is a great reference.
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Ypsidixit - 2007-10-04 13:57:27
Well, Mr. Robb (who is in the group) visited earlier--after tearing himself away from the papparazzi for a few minutes--so perhaps he'll be back & will notice the story on ballparkwatch.com. I wonder if the group is pursuing other media outlets yet, like the Freep, with a press release. That would be good because they could completely control the message, as opposed to, say, an interview. The more publicity, the better.
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unfiltered - 2007-10-04 14:09:12
My nightmare is that they get all the financing and plans together to create a new ballpark and some community group opposes the park for some reason.
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Ypsidixit - 2007-10-04 14:17:42
It's a contentious town...never a dull moment.
However, it's a bit hard to imagine how anyone could object to a tourist-luring, business-boosting, family-friendly, community-building, hefty property tax-paying, and fun attraction.
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unfiltered - 2007-10-04 14:40:10
But the TRAFFIC. And the lights would cause light pollution and you know the rest.
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Ypsidixit - 2007-10-04 15:03:16
Yep, I see what you mean.
In rebuttal to an objector's complaint of "more traffic": more traffic means more meals bought at Haab's and at Washtenaw County's best Vietnamese restaurant before the game, more strollers stopping into the shops on Michigan Ave., more game-goers having a pre-game libation in one of the bars, and more visitors to see that Ypsi is a cool, friendly town worth coming back to.
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unfiltered - 2007-10-04 15:53:27
You are right of course. It would be great for the city, but not everyone would embrace it, unfortunately.
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Murph. - 2007-10-05 12:10:33
"some community group opposes the park for some reason."
Hesitancy to embrace a stadium isn't necessarily just a product of contrariness. Personally, I'd be jumping up and down to buy season tickets, but I have to keep that separate from professional knowledge:
Within the urban planning / economic development world, "discredited" is the current attitude towards the theory "sports stadiums stimulate economic activity". A lot of research over about the last 15-20 years has shown that the net economic benefit of constructing sports stadia is usually *negative*, unless you start assigning a monetary value to "pride of place" or other generally non-economic benefits. I did a brief literature search at EMU's library; I don't have the citations on hand, but among the interesting findings are that minor league sports stadiums do not typically increase entertainment spending (a category that includes stadium admissions, theaters, concerts, restaurants) in an area - they just rearrange it: the money that people spend at the stadium is money that they *don't* spend elsewhere. (Now, hopefully, a stadium at Water Street would draw entertainment dollars away from, say, Showcase Cinemas, or the Palace of Auburn Hills, rather than the Dreamland Theater...)
Another major concern with sports stadia is the question of what happens when the franchise leaves town - witness Tiger Stadium, which has been in limbo longer than Water Street. This is of special concern with minor league teams - the Lions and Tigers will only switch venues every few decades, but the minor leagues are, as a whole, a lot more volatile. Many communities have had problems with building stadia and then having the team skip town a few years later, and having a big empty expensive stadium sitting there. This is less a problem with stadia that are completely privately financed, as Brian Robb has said that any stadium built on Water Street would have to be, but there's still the risk of having the team skip town and the stadium owners deciding that bailing is best for their bottom line as well. A privately financed stadium in tax foreclosure is not much better than an empty publicly funded stadium.
Now, I know that Mr. Robb has done his homework on this, and knows that a stadium is not a cornucopia of Water Street solving goodness. And, furthermore, I think the people working on the stadium idea are going about it the right way, and trying to address the questions that need to be addressed: who pays for it? what else happens around it? what are the other baskets we put eggs in?
(Sorry for the wonkishness - I just wanted to point out that there are serious concerns to be dealt with, and not just hand-wringing about light pollution.)
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Fritz - 2007-10-05 12:32:51
Do you know of specific cases in which the net effect was positive, even though it's usually negative? Ypsi is a different sort of town. It might be worth looking for features we have in common with the minority of towns where it worked.
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Ypsidixit - 2007-10-05 12:53:14
Murph: I am often struck at the manner in which high intelligence and subtlety of thought and reason is dismissed as "wonkish" or "geeky" or "dorky." I personally find your post fascinating and very informative, with important points to consider, ones I hadn't before. Thank you.
The volatility of teams is particularly unnerving, given the large capital expenditure.
I am curious to know, and will, like Murph, make a good effort to find out, if the towns with minor league sports stadia constructed them using severe cost-cutting measures;
1. using in-kind donations in return for something like season tickets or other special packages or sponsorship advertising,
2. is there any way to build a multi-use stadium? The DTCDC had a good idea about an ice skating rink. Any way to incorporate that into the middle of the field for winter use? I'm sure there is.
3. or, as a lady on Mark Maynard commented, incorporating green technologies to cut down on energy usage, like the green stadium in Midland.
Story on new Midland stadium going up:
Excerpt: "MIDLAND (WJRT) - (09/07/06)--The sun was shining brightly Thursday, and some of that solar energy may power Midland's new baseball stadium. It could make the ballpark the first of its kind in the country."
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Ypsidixit - 2007-10-05 12:56:08
Fritz: That's a really good idea: isolate the features in the stadium, or in the town, in the cases in which the stadium had a positive effect. Compare to net negative cases and try to find patterns. Good idea.
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Ypsidixit - 2007-10-05 13:11:44
Examples of multi-use stadiums:
Design contest in Topeka for a multi-use stadium. Quote: "It could be a place for a variety of other family oriented gatherings and activities. Other activities could include open air concerts, car shows or antique auctions."
The proposed $15.7 million Pensacola Pelicans ballpark on Pensacola Bay would be a multi-use facility and could host similar events:
Symphony at the Ballpark: "Pops at the Park," South Bend
Concerts (featuring all types of music throughout the country):
Bob Dylan/Willie Nelson
String Cheese Experiment
Jack Johnson
Special Olympics, Savannah
Football tailgating and game watching on the scoreboard: Throughout the country
Corporate Team Building: Throughout the country
Corporate-Family Outings/Picnics on-field: Throughout the country
College Invitational Tournaments: Savannah, Round Rock, Charleston, etc.
College Regional Tournaments: Throughout the country
High School Games: Throughout the country
High School Gradations: Throughout the country
Family Sit-in Movie Nights: South Bend, Lincoln, Joliet, etc.
Charity Softball Games:
Back Street Boys in Schuamburg, Ill.
Guns vs. Hoses (Police vs. Fire Departments),
various cities
Local media vs. Various participants, such as NASCAR, Kansas City and Joliet
Cancer Survivors Charity Walk "Relay for Life,"Kansas City
5K Fun Run, Savannah
Little League Games (90-foot baseball): Round
Rock, Joliet, etc.
Baseball Camps: Throughout the country
Youth/High School Showcases/Scout Tryouts: Throughout the county
Broadway Productions: "Damn Yankees," Pittsfield, Mass.
Boy/Girl Scout Campouts: Savannah, Joliet, Kansas City etc.
Wrestling/Boxing Matches: South Bend, Lansing, etc.
Santa at the Stadium: Holiday Expo, Kansas City
Trade Shows on the concourse: Kansas City, Charleston, etc.
Car Shows: "Corvettes, Porches, Mustangs" in Round Rock
Harley "Hog" Rally, Kansas City
Basketball Tourneys: Throughout the country
Football/Soccer Games (depending on field design): Long Island
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Ypsidixit - 2007-10-05 13:20:45
"String Cheese Experiment." Hee hee. Is that, like, when you put some in the microwave on high to see if you can make it burst into flame?
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More Multi-Use Goodness - 2007-10-05 13:24:35
"It has also been argued at nauseam by opponents of the Community Maritime Park that the stadium is not a multi use facility and can only be used for baseball. These people should look into the San Francisco Opera, who opened �Samson and Delilah� at ATT Park (formerly Pac Bell Park) on September 28, 2007. I believe there were several thousand people in attendance many of which were seated on the playing field." from here.
And here's a strangely beautiful idea: if there's a Jumbotron in there, could we see a--sort of--return of the drive-in movie? It's an option.
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BrianR - 2007-10-05 14:36:13
Regardless of what development ends up on the Water Street parcel, there is going to be the need for a massive, public bailout.
City Council only has so much political capital to spend. I would rather spend that capital asking the residents for a special Water Street millage than an income tax.
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Ypsidixit - 2007-10-05 15:00:18
I think that plan would help ax much of Ypsi's financial woes at the root, rather than an inadequate income tax, up to 10% of which may be wasted on admin, said Ed Koryzno at the EMU meeting. He said Plante and Moran estimated 3% waste, but that he himself thought it would be more around 10%. Putting aside the other drawbaks to an income tax, a Water Street millage would be a more direct and killing blow to the looming danger that the Water Street debt poses to Ypsi's future.
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Fritz - 2007-10-05 17:55:05
As a small bonus, any plan would provide plenty of daytime weekday parking.
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